Gary Player - Part 2 (The Open Championships)

Gary Player, nine-time Major Championship winner on the regular Tour and World Golf Hall of Fame member recounts his love of Australia, several of his Major victories including his three Open Championships, and the racial prejudice he witnessed on the PGA Tour and around the world. As always, this conversation takes many delightful twists and turns and serves to remind us of what a gift Gary Player is to the world of golf as he shares his pearls of wisdom, “FORE the Good of the Game.”

Transcript

Intro Music 0:07

Straight down the middle. It went straight down the middle.

SPEAKER_04 0:14

And I'll tell you what, somebody asked me the other day, they said, Why are you so strong and fit and look reasonably young at the age of 85? I said, There are four things you've got to do. Because they encompass a lot of other things. One, you've got to eat half the amount of food you eat. Now imagine telling an American or a South African or an Australian that. That's like teaching them hieroglyphics. Everybody eats like it's the last supper here. Second, it might be their last supper. Anyway, the second thing is make sure that you exercise every day. Who wants to exercise? If you take the greatest country on the planet, the United States of America, if you've got 5%, whatever the percentages of people, if you've got 20 million people out of 350 million people that exercise, it's a lot. And when they do start exercise, they quit after a year. Right. Number three, you gotta laugh a lot. The endorphins in laughing enhance the young cells and make you happy and make you live longer. If you're a miserable SOB and always being nasty, you're not gonna live long because that's gonna poison your system. And four, you gotta have unmeasured love in your heart. And today, if you say you're a Trump fan, they want to fight you. If you say you're a Biden fan, they want to fight you. Why? You gotta have respect for the other man's point of view. My dad was not an educated man, but he said, son, when it comes to other people's opinion, have respect for it because you might learn something that you didn't know. And today, it's not the United States of America, it's the divided states of America. People are fighting. Why? This is the greatest country in the world. We should all be working together. You've got so many enemies out there. I see Iran every day saying, death to America, death to Israel. Man, that worries me. You know? You gotta have you gotta start working together. Unity is strength.

Bruce Devlin 2:18

Would you do do us all a favor and go to go to the Congress of the United States and stand up there and give them a talk? Because they may learn something too.

SPEAKER_04 2:30

Well, a lot of things are elementary in life and they don't adhere to it. But anyway.

Mike Gonzalez 2:36

You know, if we turn the clock back 30 years and went back to the day when uh we didn't have 24-hour news, we didn't have social media, hasn't that been instrumental in some of this change we're seeing?

SPEAKER_04 2:50

Yes, but people I I come back to Mandela and Mahatbad Gandhi and Martin Luther King, who so appropriately said love beats hate. And I had a lot of people that were mean to me and said things that weren't true. I didn't fight them. I went to them the other way. And I be and I friend made a I befriended them, made them a friend, and that's the way to conquer it. You're not gonna conquer it being violently back. And so the world today, a man can you, you know, you do something, he doesn't like it, shh, sh, and he sends you the meanest damn thing you've ever received in your life. He doesn't know you, he doesn't know what you've tried to do in life, but he just condemns you. But you've got to be strong, and that's one of the things I said to Garrick when he was playing the last round. I told him how I won three tournaments in a row, seven behind Nicholas, uh behind Tom Watson going into the Masters in 78 and shot 64 and one. The next week I seven behind Balasteros, shot 65 on a cold, rainy, windy day, and beat him. The next week we went down to Houston and I was six behind Andy Bean, that redneck, and he came up to me and said to me, You're not gonna beat me, you little South African runt. I said, Andy, how can I beat you? You're six shots ahead. I shot 64 again and beat him, and I grabbed him by the neck after the tournament. I pulled him down. I said, if you ever talk to me like that again, I'll slap you and I ran like hell. So the media, it's quite fascinating. There's so much hatred. So, man, I we can write what you like. The freedom, the freedom is dying. And the most cherished thing in the world is freedom. When you think of the young men that went to Normandy and the young people and the people that put their lives on the line, freedom was not a gift, you had to fight for it. And this is something we should cherish and respect because it's dying in the world. Most countries don't have freedom anymore. I've traveled more miles than any human being in the world, and I've seen with my eyes what's happened to great countries, how they perished. The young students of America, they're so naive. They don't know what they're talking about when they talk about socialism. Just go along and travel to Venezuela, go to Zimbabwe, go to a lot of these countries and see what's happened across the world. No, you better go on your hands and knees every day and realize how blessed you are to live in this great country. But the media can, but the media could, these people could write in and just crucify you if they want to. And so my advice to Garrick was when you're playing today, Garrick, don't let anything bother you. Because you never know if somebody's gonna shout something or do something. And he's a young man, he's he's not he doesn't know about those things. So I prepared him. I said, don't you let anything bother you. And I said, you don't look at the scoreboard because that influences your play. You go out there and just try and birdie every hole. I said, remember one thing in golf: there's no such thing as a lead. You always play like you're four shots back. And that's why I won numerous tournaments, six, seven behind. Because I know when a guy's got the lead, he's under pressure. You want to make a lot of money? Go to Vegas and back the leader of the tournament every week after three rounds and bet that he won't win. You'll win in the end. And so the media has become so poisonous. That's the sad thing. I don't mind people writing what their opinions are politically, or whatever it is in sports, or whatever it may be. But don't be don't be mean and crucify people. They ruin people's careers.

Mike Gonzalez 6:30

Let me give an example uh uh for our listeners uh of that, Yuri. You you mentioned at the top about uh how you had not yet found your voice. You were afraid to speak out as a young man living under the system that you were uh you were living in in in South Africa, and yet at some point, as a young professional, you found that voice, and for that uh you you faced a lot of adversity. And I'll give you one example that was recounted to us by David Graham. Perhaps you have some recollection of this. He he mentioned a time playing in the Australian Open where uh he came into the last day tied for the lead with you. And the Sunday headlines at the time were You Will Die Today. This is directed at you. And the greens were the greens were whitewashed by by the people there, and and people were shant shouting taunts. I mean, that's the kind of stuff you faced uh in different places around the world for the kind of stances you were taking.

SPEAKER_04 7:25

Well, we played at the um the Australian golf course, which is a marvelous golf course, and man, I tell you, do, I love Australia. I miss I miss Australia so much. I was so successful there. I just won seven Australian opens, still own the Australian Open record today with all the modern-day equipment. This is 1965, but be that as it may, I walked on to the first key, and there are these people, black and white married, uh pushing their baby in front of my face, saying, This cannot happen in your country, and then there's all things on the greens uh written, racist go home on the greens and whitewash. And uh they had, can you believe this at the golf course? They had a police van going up the fairway for 18 holes. And as these people charged me on the greed and did these things, the police grabbed these guys and threw them in the police van. And when the police van was full, the next police van came around and dumped those guys in. Get rid of the bloody rape, the rat bags, mate. You know, and I mean, this was tough to play that way. You know, I I can honestly sit here in humility and not boast, but I have the best world record in golf. That's world record. I'm not talking about American, I'm talking about world. The world is a big place, uh, winning the most tournaments around the world. And I tell you, if I had not had all those kind of things, it would have been a hang of a lot better record than I have today. But anyway, there's no room for ifs. If Ben Hogan had never had an accident, remember this that Ben Hogan is without a question the greatest striker of a ball that ever lived. He won nine majors. He went to war in his prime for five years. He came back, had an accident, and never played in a major championship for almost 30 majors in his prime. So we were very quick to pronounce who's the best player ever, etc. etc. But unfortunately, ifs don't count. If Sam Sneed had never made a double bogey on the last hole in the US Open up in Philadelphia, he would have won the Grand Slam. He didn't know. They didn't have a scoreboard in those days to tell you what you need. He thought he needed a birdie. I went and looked at the hole and played it and gambled and made seven. There's so many ifs, unfortunately, ifs don't mean a thing. But let me enhance on this media. When I was a young boy, I went I met my girl, my wife, when I was 14. And I wanted to get married so badly, and I was invited by Bruce Nose, a wonderful golfer and a wonderful man, a great Australian called Norman von Neyder. And he said to me, I won the tournament in England with a score of 70, 64, 64, 68, 70, and I beat Bobby Jones's record. He said, I'm going to give you an invite to come to Australia. I'm going to give you$10,000, and I'm going to pay your airfare. And I went out there and did I love Australia. Man, I get goosebumples. I just loved Australia and the Australians. They called me Gaza, and I just loved it. Anyway, I get quite tearful when I think of it. But anyway, so now I tell my wife I'm going to play in a tournament called the Ampole. If I win it, there's 5,000 pounds first prize. The biggest prize in world golf outside of America. If I win it, but I don't know, they got Peter Thompson, all the good Aussie players that have never been given recognition for. And uh there's the guy like Bo Weiniger, George Beyer, people from Asia, all over the world playing. I said, gee, it's not easy for me to win, but if I do, and I believe I'm going to because I want you, baby, we're going to get married. Well, I win the tournament. And there's a guy called MacDougal. He, as I win the tournament, he runs off.

SPEAKER_05 11:24

Now you talk about media. He runs off and he has to send my wife a telegram, which she probably gets two days later. You know, the drum, the drums really send it through. Now, young guys today have no conception about, you know, I mean, really, it's hard to tell a young guy about this. And anyway, I get married, and later on I have six children, 22 grandchildren of all colours and nationalities, black kids, Americans, Australia, every nationality.

SPEAKER_04 11:57

We've got our own United Nations and thank God for golf. I I say a prayer. I can tell you this, guys, and I I know there's a lot of people that don't want to ever talk about prayer and about God in your life. You know, we all are sinners, and I have done a lot of things wrong, and we all do, but it's nice to have somebody to ask to give you forgiveness. And I never have one night of my life. Never one night, not one. In fact, I say a prayer five times a day. Thank you for letting me be in America. Thank you for this beautiful golf course. I'm sitting here right now in my home here, overlooking the ocean with a beach here. Man, I know what it's like. What these eyes have seen, no American has seen. So I know that gratitude is a terribly important thing. I'm grateful to have a friend like Bruce Devlin and his wife and his son. I've known them for years, and to have friendship like that is a massive gift in life. And we are bestowed with many gifts of which people are reluctant to remember and abide by.

Bruce Devlin 13:02

Yeah, it's very well said, and we it's mutual, my dear friend. Uh you've been a great friend for a long time, and uh I'm picking, I'm picking you to get to a triple digit age.

SPEAKER_03 13:17

Fifteen more years. You can do it, buddy.

Mike Gonzalez 13:22

The only trouble is he's gonna shoot 28 under his age.

SPEAKER_05 13:29

The only problem is, I'll see Brewster say, who the hell are you?

Mike Gonzalez 13:36

Well, if there's anybody that can get it back to parallel at age 100, I'd bet on this guy, that's for sure. Yeah. So you you guys had a chance under the the IMG umbrella to play a lot of golf together back in the 60s, didn't you? A lot of exhibitions around the world. We did.

SPEAKER_04 13:52

Exactly, exactly, and had a a lot of fun. And uh, you know, I think of Australia when I I first went there. Well, Bruce and I went to we went for Slazzages in an old car there, so damn hot, uh, and uh and the wind was blowing so hard that the birds were walking, and we traveled, we put on our underwear, it was no air conditioning cars, with a guy called Percy. Do you remember?

SPEAKER_05 14:15

Yeah, I do remember. And we get to the club and this old tin shanty clubhouse, members so happy to see us. Haven't had water there for four years, cracks in the fairways. We hit I hit my first ball out of bounds and they cheered.

SPEAKER_04 14:32

And we stayed at the clubhouse afterwards, and we danced with the members and had a time. These kind of things don't happen today, I tell you. They don't happen. It's a and look, it's understandably so. It's a big business now. You know, I mean, I look at this guy, uh Garrick Higo, who just won the tournament. He's 22 years of age. 1.3 million. I mean, I won 24 tournaments on the on the tour with all the majors, nine of the majors, nine of the majors on the senior tour, uh and and and twenty tournaments on the senior tour. My goodness me, and I don't think I made I don't think I made five million dollars. And here this guy's making one point something in his first tournament. I mean, it's but it's wonderful. It's wonderful to see. Long may it last.

Mike Gonzalez 15:22

You probably remember the prize money that you won in your first open championship, don't you?

SPEAKER_04 15:28

Yes, I do. And I I won it, I'll tell you, even more uh noticeable. I played at Wilmington and I finished uh 20th and won$25. So I for I didn't cash the check.

SPEAKER_05 15:46

I put uh I framed it to put in my office.

SPEAKER_04 15:49

The guy said, Why didn't you cash your check? You won 25 bucks. Well, in those those days you could get a room for five dollars, you know, you misremember that.

Mike Gonzalez 15:58

Yeah, a lot of young people don't understand why uh some of the great uh players, particularly Americans, I guess at the time, didn't play more in the British Open. But we look here in 1959, Gary Plair wins the the Open Championship at Muirfield Thousand Pounds first prize. Uh go go nine years later. Nine years later, you win by two over Bob Charles Jack Nicholas at Carnoostie. The GMO, the Greater Milwaukee Open was a new tournament that year. The first year they ever played it. It played in competition that same week with the British Open. Its winner made five times what you made.

SPEAKER_04 16:44

Yes, correct. And you know, two things I want to tell you about uh is uh is Carnoustie to remind me, and then the other thing is uh at the at the Open Championship, I I hadn't I didn't I couldn't afford to go back to South Africa and see my first daughter being born. So I met Vivian in England and we went up to Mearfield and I walked into Mearfield and uh the secretary there, Colonel Evans Loam was his name. He was a colonel. What do you want here? I've got such a shock. I said, Well, sir, I've come to practice for the open. He says, You're not practicing here. This is Mearfield. Don't you know that? Don't you know about this club? I said, not really, sir. I'm very sorry, I'm ignorant of the fact. So I said, but sir, do me a favor, I'm very poor. I've got my first baby here, and I'm gonna win the open. He says, Not only are you not going to practice here, you're an arrogant young bastard. Those were verbatim the words. So no, so now I'm really, as we say, stumped. So I've got to think very quickly. I said, Sir, I have this child. I need to practice to make some money. Please be a decent human being and let me practice here. He said, Come into my office. He gave me a cup of tea, I befriended him, and then I was playing on the practice rounds ten days before, all day long. I was an animal with practicing and still am. And anyway, so we play this the 15th hole, driving a wedge, driving a wedge, driving a wedge. He says, My boy, when you play the torment, the wind could turn around, you had a drive and a two-iron there. I said, Really? So I started hitting him off with a six-iron, and I hit a lot of two irons and three irons to the green. Lo and behold, we played 36 holes, which a lot of people don't understand. We played 36 holes in all the major championships. Well, the open and the US Open with 36 holes the last day. Well, in the morning I hit a three-iron to the green and birdied it. In the afternoon, I hit a two-iron to the green and birdied it, and went on to win with a score of 284 with that crappy old ball, excuse my language, and those clubs and those bunkers and those that are not raked properly, and spike marks on the green, and no shortcut fairways. And Phil Mickelson only beat me by four shots with his victory in perfect weather, with perfect clubs, with all perfect conditions, and I was the youngest man to ever win the British Open at that time.

SPEAKER_05 19:25

And at the prize giving, Colonel Evans Loam stood there, the old fashioned you know, with his hands under yeah, like this, like he'd won it. But I made a fuss of him, you see, I made a fuss of him and it it paid off.

SPEAKER_04 19:41

So instead of being military, uh instead of fighting back in a milit a militant fashion, I gave the love and it conquered the man.

Mike Gonzalez 19:52

There you go. Yeah, so at the time, Gary, a lot of people really don't remember or realize this, but there were no exemptions into that tournament. You had to qualify over 36 holes. And at that point, that was Mirfield and Gullen number one, I think, for 36 holes of qualifying to get in, right?

SPEAKER_04 20:09

Well, I was British Open Champion and had to pre-qualify 36. Arnold was Masters Champion, and Nicholas was you as open chairman, and we all had to qualify. These young guys think today that uh, you know, that they're the only ones that had to qualify. So, and then uh Bob Charles, remind me to tell you about a please remind me to tell you next about a golfer talking about the players of today. Anyway, then Bob Charles, he ties with Phil Rogers, and they go, they play 36 holes on the Sunday, Monday morning, they had to play 56 holes in the playoff. I mean, people don't understand that. And then the other day, you know, we all have a certain amount of arrogance in our system or ego, whatever the word is appropriate. And one of the players playing the tour who lives in South Africa says to me in December last year, you know, when you and Nicholas and Palmer and Trevino and Watson won your tournaments playing together, you only had to beat about 30 guys. We got to beat 90 guys now. I said, I concede that about your 90 guys, but not your 30 guys. So I came back here during COVID and I went to see my daughter in Philadelphia for three days. I stayed for nine months because of COVID. Anyway, I sat down and worked out when we played the tour. There were 59 major champions that played while we were playing. 59. So people are always in their era think that they're the best. There's nobody playing golf today. Nobody that could hit the ball like Sam Sneed and Ben Hogan. Not one single player playing the tour. And that I know for a fact because I've seen them all and I've been there and experienced it.

Mike Gonzalez 22:00

If you look at your open championship wins, Gary, uh three pretty impressive places to win and very, very tough tests of golf.

SPEAKER_04 22:11

Well the toughest is Carnousty. Uh Beerfield's a marvelous golf course. Litherman St. Anne's is a is a very tough, deceptive golf course. And uh when I was playing at Carnousi, there were five of us going into the 14th hole the last round. I'm one shot ahead. Nicholas and I'm playing with him. Bob Charles, Morris Bembridge, and Billy Casper. And the 14th hole, the wind's blowing into her face. I love to play in wind. That was my my great dream was playing in wind. Didn't like rain very much. But anyway, I hit the drive up the right-hand side of the fairway, and I could see that flag fluttering in the breeze, and I take out the three wood and I hit it eight inches from the hole. And Nicholas Birdie's the hole. And I now go two shots ahead, and I stayed two shots ahead until the last hole. And unlike Van der Velva, I didn't say Viva La Francais.

SPEAKER_05 23:10

I said, win it, win it for essay. South of Africa.

SPEAKER_04 23:15

So I took an iron off the Ton for my and an iron for my second. I knew Nicholas could reach the green and two, I couldn't. I said, if he eagles the hole, good luck to him. We'll go in the playoff and we'll see who wins. But I mean, there's Vanta Velva. My wife sat in our suite. She was crying like a little whip pup watching this guy. He takes a driver and he was unlucky that he never went in the water. If he went in the water, they also at least commentators again. Oh, how lucky he is he never went in the water. If he goes in the water, he has to drop on the side of the bank and he chips it out down the fairway. He's on for four and he two putts and he wins the tournament. But now he's got to go for the green, as Bruce knows there's out of bounds on the left. You ain't going there. And there's a stand on the right and there's water in the front. And the clown, I'm sorry to say that not in a derogatory fashion, decides he's going for the green. Are you mad? Are you mad? You need a you need a stubble bogey to win. You take out a wedge and you knock it up the fairway, and you take another wedge and you put it in there, you might make power, but you make bogey.

unknown 24:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:28

And then he puts in the water, and then he puts it in the water, and then he thinks he can walk across the water. He realized he couldn't. His feet went down, he sunk. So I mean, yeah, the poor guy was punch drunk, you can imagine. I mean, it was the most sad, and I'll tell you what, I admire that guy von der Velva. He took it so well. He took it so well. But I mean, before he dies, as he's on his deathbed, he's gonna say noosty.

Bruce Devlin 24:56

Yeah, well.

SPEAKER_04 25:09

Sneed. Ed Sneed. He needed, he had, he dropped three shots in the last three holes to lose Augusta. Three. And the one thing you don't do at Augusta, Bruce, you don't miss that hole on the right, because nobody's ever got down in two except Arnold Palmer. One year in 1962, I had a chance to be the first player to win the Masters twice in a row. I've got Arnold by two shots. And I hit and I put my ball 12 foot from below the hole at Augusta at 16. And for those of you who have known and have been there, you'll appreciate this. He hits the worst-looking shot I've ever seen. He missed the green and put it in the fringe on the right. So now my caddy, his name was Ernest Nipper, African American gentleman, best caddy I ever had. He says, Laddie, we've won. I said, Yes, we have. So Arnold hits the shot and it's coming down there at 100 because it gathers speed, you see. You can't get down in two. Nobody's ever got down in two from there. It's coming down.

SPEAKER_05 26:15

I said, I said, he's in the bunker because there's a bunker behind the flag. It hits the flag, bounces up, and goes in.

SPEAKER_04 26:24

Well, I felt like I was hit by lightning. And I went onto the next T, but I was very positive still. So he hits first and he hooks it into Eisendown tree, rattles in the tree, comes underneath. I fly it right over the tree. He takes a five-ine and he chips it up there onto the front edge of the green, onto the green, some distance on the hole. I hit a nine-in. Would you believe it? He holds it. So now we tie, we go in a 30 uh 18-hole playoff. I'm out in 33, he's out in 36. The 10th hole, I had a beautiful second shot just at the back of the flag. He hits it 40 foot to the right now. You got no chance there. You got a 15-foot break.

Bruce Devlin 27:06

I was gonna say it's a big old break.

SPEAKER_05 27:09

Yeah, so I said so I said to Nipper, I said, Nipper, we're gonna go at least another one ahead here. I learned a big lesson. Came around that bend, went in the hole. I said, man, I said, God's an American.

Mike Gonzalez 27:29

If you had to look over your nine major championships, at least on the regular tour, is there a favorite?

SPEAKER_04 27:34

The British Open has always been for me the the most difficult tournament to win because you're not yardage is completely irrelevant. You can hit, as Bruce knows, you can hit a par three, you can have 140 yards, you can hit a a 9-9, and the next day you'll hit a driver. And I love that. It tests your fettle, it tests whether you've got character or not. And you can't feel sorry for yourself because that tournament will make you feel sorry for yourself and make you feel negative. They should call it the negative open, because this thing has crippled more people than polio. This is a very, very tough, tough tournament to win. And I think winning that as a young man in our part of the world and the rest of the world, the British Open is always the most historically famous tournament to win with tradition and everybody having played in it and the great test that it is. That was such a big thrill, and it enabled me, it put me onto the road of success where I could afford to now travel and play, and I wanted to have a family and travel with me. But when I think of the US Open, my mother, who I adored, dies at nine years of age. Even today, I'll sit there and I will, I'm not ashamed, I cry very easily. And I will cry because she never saw me hit a golf ball. And I loved her so much. And so when I won the tournament, I was the first athlete to give their prize money back. And I gave back the$25,000 to Cancer and to Junior Golf. And so that was a very and that enabled me to win the Grand Slam. And let me say something about my dear friend Jack Dicklass. I was going to Greensboro. He said, Gary, you want to win the Grand Slam and win it before me? Come with me. Jack Dicklass was such a a gentleman and a competitor. He said, if you want to win it, you come and practice with me. I said, Jack, I've got to go to Greensboro, man. I've got to make some cash. I reluctantly went to the US Open with him and practiced every day and befriended all the members there. Was marvelous. And I I don't want to boast, but it's a fact. No professional golfer ever prepared for a major championship like that. Maybe Hogan to win the British Open who he went one month before and almost came back because it was like camping out, and the National Cash Register gave him a place to live in downtown, and he stayed on and won the tournament, which was so magnificent. But I sat in front of that mirror every night, and I sat there because I was going to witness to it. And I hit my face hard, slap like this, like that. And I'd slap this side and slap this side. And I'd sit in front of that mirror in a Tai Chi position, which is your legs parallel where you're sitting like I'm sitting in a chair. Very difficult. You will never give up, you'll never feel sorry for yourself. You love the adversity that you're going to face. You're going to win it. You're destined to win it. I brainwashed myself like you cannot believe. I never went out to dinner one night. I stayed in that room. And Bruce would be interested in this. Every morning early I got up because I was in bed at nine o'clock. I went to the course, and there was this big scoreboard which the U.S. Open have every year at it's there today at the down in where they're playing down in California. And all the names are on the scoreboard, and the latest was in golds, letters, Kenventuri, 1964. The other names had withered into the the times of time, given into O Mother Time. And I sat there in this Tai Chi position and I sat there and I said, Gary Player, Gary Player, Gary Player. And I did that every morning. Visualization. So the and then I went to the gym and I was squatting with 325 pounds. And one of the famous golf architects walked by me one day and said, Huh, this Gary Player's mad.

SPEAKER_05 31:48

He'll never win another golf tournament past the age of 35. You just cannot do this kind of ridiculous behavior and win golf tournaments.

SPEAKER_04 31:58

So I sent him an SMS the other day. I said two SMS. I said, please make sure that I'll be joining you one of these days, and make sure you've got a nicely designed golf course there. And above all, make sure there's a gym with weights. And then I then I sent one to Arnie. I said, Arnie, listen, make sure I'll be up joining. Jack and I'll be joining you one of these days, and Bruce will be with us. And I said, make sure you've got a good Gary player designed golf course.

SPEAKER_05 32:29

Immediately it came back and said, No, it's a Palmer course.

Bruce Devlin 32:33

Jack said, No, it's a Nicholas course.

SPEAKER_05 32:35

A Nicholas, and then Bruce said no. Oh, you want to travel first class, making a Devlin course?

Mike Gonzalez 32:45

Well, Bruce, you you'll remember uh you'll remember that 1965 U.S. Open at Bel Reve because uh Gary beat a good friend of yours in an 18-hole playoff, didn't he?

Bruce Devlin 32:54

He did, he beat Kel Nagel. Yeah. Oh, what a beauty. He was uh he was uh well uh Gary knows the story. I mean, uh I thought so much of Kel Nagel, I uh I played the the Lakes Open with him and uh Marlene Hage back in the days when I was just a young man. And uh I thought so much of Kelnegel that I that I named my oldest boy after him. I know Gary's met Kel a lot by the way, you you know, early in the day you were talking about golf courses. Guess what Kel? Guess what Kel just did? Uh about 18 months ago. Bought a golf course.

SPEAKER_05 33:35

Oh, did he really? So you could be the head pro there. Oh, I could be if he if he hire me. He doesn't pay enough. Well, you got a wonderful son and kill, you got a wonderful family. I always loved Kel. He was such a deep guy.

SPEAKER_04 33:55

And Kilnagel, let me tell you, um, I think the finest, the finest gentleman that I've met in golf is this guy, Garrick Higher. But Kilnagel, of all the players I played against, I don't ever remember playing. Nicholas was my number one, and I'll I'll tell you why, if you remind me. Kilnagel was such a joke, and what a golfer. I mean, you talk to a guy of the regular tour today. He doesn't even know who the hell Kill Nagel is. But he'll tell you, he'll tell you how tough the guys are today, and yet he doesn't know Kill Nagel. Kilnagel tied in the US Open. He he tied, he did he tie with Arnold Palmer or lose by one shot at the British Open?

Bruce Devlin 34:43

Uh I think he lost by one shot. He won in he won in 1960, the uh the kel did. No. Yeah, yeah, at the old course. Yeah, yeah, at the old course at St. Andrews. He won in 1960 at the old course. Are you telling me that Kel Nagel won the British Open? Yes, sir. I am telling you that for sure.

SPEAKER_04 35:02

You you sure of that?

Mike Gonzalez 35:04

1960 at the old course, yep.

SPEAKER_04 35:06

I didn't I didn't remember that, and I've got a pretty good memory. But so here we are. Here's a guy, uh he almost wins the two opens.

unknown 35:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:15

Numerous golf courses. Has there ever been a better putter? You know, they they we we just did a thing with uh Brad Fax and that the ten best putters ever.

Bruce Devlin 35:24

Right. He you'd have to put him in there.

SPEAKER_04 35:26

And I yeah, I put him in there. I mean, this guy was phenomenal and had, and of course, all these guys on the network say you can't jab a putt. The guy hits a bad putt and jab, oh, he missed it because he jabbed it. Well, the best putter that ever lived was Bobby Locke, and he never followed through an inch, and Billy Casper never followed through an inch, and Kel Nagel never followed through an inch, and they held so many putts that they never even grew past five foot four because they were always bending down.

Bruce Devlin 35:53

Yeah. You can add Bob Charles to that list too.

SPEAKER_05 35:59

Oh, yes, yes, Bob Charles. Oh my goodness, could he butt?

SPEAKER_04 36:03

But you see, people, you see, that's why I say education is the light. You've got to read, you've got to, you've got to have this education, you've got to learn to speak well. I'm shocked at managers who manage golfers. If I manage the golfer, I'd make him go to elocution. Now, a lot of people in America who talk about elocution, they don't know what I'm talking about. It's performing. Do you know, Mike? Do you know what elocution is?

Mike Gonzalez 36:31

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 36:32

Yeah, elocution is becoming better as being an orator is concerned. Now, and this is what I'm telling this guy, young boy Garrick, too. You get to be a world champion, Garrick. You better learn to speak well. Very, very important. You're gonna re today at 85, I make way more money than I made when I was world champion. I have great contracts because I look after them, I look after their clients. And so golf is this remarkable sport, but we've got to teach young people. You know, a lot of guys get on this on the show and they say, Well, I hit a 7-9 here and I did this, and then they go. You know, you've got to be able to communicate, man. Communication is a big thing. Learn to smile. You know, that's why I was so happy to see Phil Mickelson win. He holds a putt and he's going like this to the people. He's smiling and he goes up to a young boy and gives him the ball, blows a lady a kiss. Enthusiasm is one of the great ingredients and necessities of life. Now I watched two other players, I won't mention their name, they hold a 25-foot putt. I thought they'd go to the morgue. Really? So a manager should say, hey, listen, man, you want me to make you money, you want me to sell you. You better help still, you better help me sell you. You better have some smiles and some enthusiasm. You can still concentrate. When I played, I was a mean SOB on the golf course, man. I was to myself, I was irritable. I never played well. Well, I'll relax and have fun today. Uh uh. That was not me. And they all say, Trevino, oh, yes, it's fun on the course. Watch him once he's 40 yards from the green. He's meaner than our junkyard dog. You've got to be able to focus and be tight, but you gotta know how to combine them. You know, you've got to give love, you've got to sign autographs. Have you seen how some of these tennis players sign their autographs? There's no signature. If you notice, I look at the master's flag, okay? I look at the master's flag that's signed every year. There are four signatures I can read on the master's flag. Four. Yours? Well, Palmer you could always read, Nicholas you could read, Tom Watson you could read, and there are and a couple of others, but most of them you can't read them.

Mike Gonzalez 38:53

Now you I saw a flag on social media yesterday that was posted asking for people to help identify signatures. There were 30 signatures, uh 25 they needed help with.

SPEAKER_04 39:05

Now, how about that? And you know Arnold Palmer was the first to say young men, take your hat off when you're inside. It used to irritate him, the daylights out of him. I miss Arnold terribly. And secondly, when you sign your name, sign it so somebody can read it. But you make so much money today, you make so much money today, you don't have to worry about all those things. You can be an ordinary player and make ten million dollars now. You don't even have to be a really super player to play it. And they use the word superstar so quickly. You know, I came out with a statement of which not necessary, right? I said, to be a superstar, superstar, you've got to win six majors. That's the bar. Well, everybody said, Well, what about Mickelson? I said, he's won five, he's not a superstar. What about Balasteros? He won five. I said, yes, I like to think he was a superstar. In Europe he was, but he was not a world superstar. He came to play the senior tour, he finished dead last. He couldn't play after the age of 35. He wasn't even an eight handicap after the age of 35. And I adored Zevi. I adored him. You got to put the bar somewhere. And that's why when Mickelson won, I said, yes, he's the new superstar. And he deserves everything he gets because he knows how to treat people. And no wonder, if I was signing up anybody today, I would sure as hang sign Phil Mickelson up.

Mike Gonzalez 40:32

Yeah. Let me ask you something, Gary. If looking back, if if you knew when you turned professional, what you know now, what would you have done differently?

SPEAKER_04 40:45

We come back to the ifs. In 1961, when I won the Masters, I was representing a company called First Flight. And there was an Irish American man called Jack Hawkins. What a character. He'd get on the plane and he'd say to the hostess, ma'am, do you have change for a thousand dollar bill? She'd say, I don't even make a thousand a month. Are you kidding? So he comes up to me and says, Gary, I think you're gonna I think you're gonna win all the majors one day, and I'm gonna offer you right here and now a million dollars a year for five years. And but you've got to come and build a house, and I'll pay for it, a million-dollar house in Chattanooga, Tennessee. I'd never heard of Chattanooga, Tennessee, quite honestly, at that stage. That is equivalent to nine million dollars a year today. And I said, Oh, thank you, uh Jack. I said, but I'm a South African, I've got to put, you know, people don't know where South Africa is. They think it's a jungle and it's one of the most modern, sophisticated countries in the world, and I've got to put it on the map. And had I accepted that, look, I had a wonderful life in South Africa. I still am a South African, I still travel on a South African passport, but I would have won a lot more majors had I accepted that. Because I used to travel, I never even played in the PGA in many years because I wanted to go and see my family. I was homesick. And I had to fly over here, and as Bruce knows, in those days it was 40 hours, no jets, had to stop four times in places on the way over, and traveling with all those kids, man, and not having a base, not having a home to stay in. Wow, what a difference it would have made in my career. But I'm very thankful and grateful for what I achieved. Under the circ under the difficulties that I had to play golf.

Bruce Devlin 42:36

I may be wrong in this, but I believe, Gary, you can correct me if if I'm not right, but you've traveled somewhere in the neighborhood of 36 million miles in airplanes.

SPEAKER_04 42:50

Not as much as that, no, but uh definitely travel more man than the miles than any human being ever. You know, what people forget, I was not traveling from New York to Los Angeles, as you know, because you used to travel from Oz to New York. I mean, I'd make that trip, you know, seven times a year. Then I was playing in Australia, then I was playing in China, then I was playing in uh in India and things like that. But we mustn't forget, as far as China and India and a lot of these countries, that was only the latter part of my career because as a South African living in an apartheid regime, I was not allowed to play in China, I was not allowed to play in Japan, uh, I was not allowed to play in Denmark, Sweden, India, a lot of countries, and that's why I always say thank God to America and to Britain and to Oz and some other co in England and countries like that that realize that you know one man is not responsible for forming the policy of apartheid. Now, might is right, unfortunately. What about America? They had a massive apartheid. system. When I first came to America I went to Los Angeles, my one of my first tournaments in nineteen fifty seven. I heard about Charlie Sifford and I met him. I said, Mr. Siffet, how did you play today? Oh I'm not allowed to play. I said what? So I went to the PGA and tried to do something unsuccessfully. I eventually flew up to Cleveland at his request to raise some money which he so so appreciated and he became one of my best friends and he had a tough tough time. Imagine not being able to play and what happened he went on to do well and when he was inducted into the Hall of Fame he asked a Whitey from South Africa to introduce him and that was one of the greatest honors bestowed upon me ever. Lielda I played golf with our Prime Minister who was a staunch believer in apartheid and I play with anybody. I don't play with them because of their political views. I'm very much against communism or socialism but if President Xi of China asked me to play golf with him I would do it in respect of his position in the world. And I asked Lee Elder to come to South Africa in the midst of apartheid he was scared obviously and I went to my prime minister and I looked him in the eyes and I said I want to put a spoke in the wheel of apartheid. I want to bring a black golfer can you imagine you had to get permission how sad were the conditions I want to bring him to play in our PGA in South Africa he pondered for a while and eventually succumbed and said bring him and Leolder came down against the wishes of the majority of the black people here and I was called a traitor in the airport in South Africa. He came down and played in our PGA played very well we went to other venues and we really contributed to the downfall of apartheid in our own small way and so for him to be honored this year on the first tea at Augusta he deserved it. He was the first black golfer to play at Augusta but what I liked about Charlie Sifford which is different to today he said to me himself and let me tell you another thing I played with him at Greensboro one year and we got on the 16th green and the people say go home go home I turned around and I just went like that to them you know and then we got on the 17th hole and he hit his ball on the fairway and this guy walked across the fairway the walk area crosswalk kicked his ball in the rough and I saw it and I called Harvey Rayner over the PJ and I said look I saw him kick it he replaced it and play it and Charlie came in at the end and marked his card and I'll never forget he took his pencil like this he went ha how can you play under conditions like this I said Charlie if anybody understands it that's me and I said you got to be strong my man you got to be strong. You can't let these people beat you and he said to me before he died he said you know I'm not going to forget what happened to me I can't but he says what I got to do now is build on the success that I've had I've got to show the young black kids in America what they can do now with no more segregation in America yes there is segregation there's segregation in every place of the world but what I've got to do I've got to help beat it and I've got to develop young people and I want to see young people come along and play well and show the world what they can do with a positive attitude. And what did Michael Jordan do? The same thing you know you've got to so Charlie was a very special man and Lee L is the same. He says I've got to yes I had a tough time but I've got to build on this and not go back a hundred years which is terrible I can't do anything about that but I can do something about now and in the future and that's what I admired about them. It's like me when I had all those demonstrations I had planned the tour for two years with three policemen in my house every single night and six policemen walking around the golf course every single round I wasn't bitter to America I wasn't bitter upon that you've got to forget that you've got to go on and do good positive things.

Mike Gonzalez 48:37

Athletes are making five hundred million a hundred million dollars man look at the look what's ahead of you what can be done can be achieved you build with love and not hate we've made great strides in this country with uh with race relations there's still a long way to go I think what young people really aren't aware of or don't remember is the fact that at least up until 1961 PGA of America had a Caucasian only policy and it was because of that policy that in 1962 when you won the PGA championship the tournament was supposed to be played in California was actually moved to Ronamank because of that policy wasn't it absolutely I mean there's so many things that people are unaware of I mean uh that's a good reminder of that how would you like to be remembered uh I think I'd like to be remembered as a man who tried to contribute to society because when you're poor like I was and you struggled like I did you realize what help what help means and if you can somebody could change my life at that stage I know what it would have meant to me having experienced it there's nothing like the experience and I've changed millions of people's lives in this world we built aid centers in China hospitals in South Africa churches in South Africa schools in South Africa sponsored people it's been a wonderful journey for me to be able to give back and contribute to society I love to give and so that's how I'd like to be I'm not a believer in legacies I think that people forget there's Kildagel people don't even know Kildagel anymore that name and yet what a wonderful golfer wonderful man he was.

SPEAKER_04 50:29

I mean a lot of these guys playing today don't know they have no idea how good Sam Sneed was you you're only here for a short amount of time do the best you can to make the world a better place and that's what your job is I'm not conceited that I want them to remember me forever. Why? Now is the time when I do my job it's time for new ones to come along and do their job.

Bruce Devlin 50:55

Bruce has there ever been a greater global ambassador of the game than Gary Player nobody that I know of uh Gary I gotta tell you something you've had a you've had a wonderful journey in your life along with Vivian and your kids and grandkids and we've had a great journey with you today man I'm telling you it's a lot of fun to have you on this podcast and uh I know Mike and uh Mike will join me in saying this we wish you all the best and uh and thank you again for being so generous with your time.

Mike Gonzalez 51:28

Great pleasure mate all the best Oz take care Mike down the middle okay wonderful to be with you okay bye bye just we we be thank you for listening to another episode of four the good of the game and please wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify if you like what you hear please subscribe spread the word tell your friends until we do it up again everybody