Jack Nicklaus - Part 2 (Philanthropy, Course Architecture and Friendship)

Perhaps the greatest the game of golf has ever seen, Jack Nicklaus joins us to share his favorite golf moment and where he would take a career mulligan (or two). He remembers his good friend Arnold Palmer, talks with pride of the philanthropic work he and his wife Barbara have done, of his golf course design body of work and about the best-selling book written by son Jackie. Jack ends our discussion by reflecting on his long-time friendship with Bruce Devlin, "FORE the Good of the Game."

Transcript

Intro Music 0:07

Straight down the middle. It went straight down the middle. Then it started to hook just a week.

Mike Gonzalez 0:16

Let me just shift gears a little bit from the way look back that we've been doing. If you think about your favorite golf moments. What's one moment in your career that might have not even been uh in a serious competition like a major that brought you the most joy?

Jack Nicklaus 0:37

Oh, I'd have to say about five years ago when my grandson hit a hole in one of the masters. You know, I think it actually read him out of the game of golf, though. How so? Well, I mean, same thing as Gary. My son Gary was uh on the cover of Sports Illustrated when he's 16, and all he was doing was the next necklace. Well, you know, Gary didn't hadn't earned that that place. And uh every place he went, they were always talking to it and have him sign in the covers. And I mean, Barbara always said he always, well, during that period of time, if he was playing, he'd get off the 18th green, look around him, and make a bad dash to call to the car to try to avoid the press. And uh it sort of ran Gary out of the game for two years. And GT, uh making that hole in one everybody, that's all they talk about. He hasn't earned uh, you know, that much uh adulations, one shot. He was a nice player, still is a nice player, but he doesn't play very much anymore. He's he's a musician and he's uh writing songs, and and frankly, I think that's what he's gonna end up doing. So that's a shame because he's he's gonna probably waste a lot of talent, but you know, I can't uh I understand what he's a hot Nicholas is a hard name to carry for the kids into the game, and uh uh Jackie found it tough, Gary found it tough, and uh I understand it, but you know, I can't do much about it. It happens to be our name.

Mike Gonzalez 2:06

And he was how old when he made that hole in one in the R3 tournament?

Jack Nicklaus 2:10

Uh I think he was 14.

Mike Gonzalez 2:12

Yeah, yeah. Everybody remembers that moment. Um let me ask you this. We've asked all of our other guests this same thing. If you had one mulligan in your career, where would you take it?

Jack Nicklaus 2:22

Well, I got I've got uh probably uh uh two two big mulligans I take, and neither one of them were mine. One was one was uh Trevino in 72 at uh Burtondale on the 17th hole, making hit that chip again, and he just sort of slashed out of the rough in the hole, and Watson in 82 at uh Pebble Beach. Outside of that, I don't need any mulligans for myself.

Mike Gonzalez 2:51

That's a great answer, and very unique from what we've heard, I'll tell you. You know, some guys uh like uh David Gramby thought about it for a while. He says, I don't think I'm gonna take a mulligan.

Jack Nicklaus 3:02

No, I played my shots, got my results, and uh good or bad, uh unfortunately most of them were good. They were all right.

Mike Gonzalez 3:12

If you knew at age 20 what you know now, how would you approach things differently?

Jack Nicklaus 3:19

Well, you know, you don't know at age 20 what you know now. Uh that's how that's why that's why you grow and mature and and gain knowledge and wisdom as you get older. I know I played Mahogan at uh Cherry Hills in 1960. I shot 39, the last nine holes to lose. And, you know, everybody talked about Palmer's great round. Palmer did play a great round, but if all I had to do was shoot uh, you know, one over par the back nine and win that win win the U.S. Open. But it was the best thing that ever happened to me not to do that uh because I wouldn't have learned. Hogan said uh they were giving next day I remember Dan Jenkins was consoling uh Hogan and he said uh, I said, Ben, I'm really sorry. He says, Boy, you could you had a good shot to win there, and so forth Ben says, Oh heck. He says, I had a good shot, yeah, but he says, I played with a young kid. If he'd known how to win, would have won by several strokes. So you gotta learn how to win. You know, I screwed up in 60 there, best thing could ever happen to me. I screwed up at Lytham in 63. I had a two-shot lead with two holes to play, bogeyed the last two holes. And that's when Rogers and Bob Charles tied, and uh uh Charles won the playoff. Uh and uh uh, you know, the one or two other times, and you you learn from your mistakes you uh through years of of playing and and saying, you know, and I learned that I learned also that uh you didn't have to beat everybody. Uh quite often you just let everybody beat themselves. And I mean, I think Tiger figured that out at an early age. I figured it out when I looked up at the leaderboard and saw Smith Jones and whatever it might be, I knew that I didn't have to do a whole lot except sort of play solid golf. But if I looked up and saw if I saw Palmer and Player and Devlin on the leaderboard, uh I knew that I had to play.

Mike Gonzalez 5:20

Well, you mentioned Arnold Palmer and uh, of course, a great relationship that everybody misses him. If Arnie were to come back uh for a quick visit, what's the first thing you'd whisper into his ear?

Jack Nicklaus 5:31

Well, uh, that would be tough. I don't know where he could hear it. Huh? Huh? Uh Arnie had a little trouble hearing, but that's all right. Uh Arnie, I we had we had a great time together. We played a lot of things together. And uh uh I don't know what I'd whisper in his ear. I think uh, you know, I think he lived his life pretty well. I think I think he uh I remember when he went in for a physical, not not long before he passed. Uh the doctor came back out and uh looked at him and he said, Arn, he said, uh, I want you to cut back on that drinking a little bit. And uh he says, you know, he says, I don't mind you having a drink or two in the evening, but you know, that's enough. And Arnold looked at him and he said, Look, Doc, I'm 80, probably 85 at the time. I'm 85 years old, I can't play golf anymore, because I don't have sex anymore. I can't fly an airplane anymore. I'll be damned if you can take the only pleasure away from me that I have left. And so I understand that. I mean, Arnold lived his life the way he wanted to live it, and they start taking things away from him. And I remember he said to Aleister Johnston, the guy that sort of runs the stuff, he said, and Alistair said, he says, Arnold Palmer loved being Arnold Palmer until the last couple years, and he hated being Arnold Palmer. And what he means by that, he couldn't do the things that Arnold Palmer could do and so forth. People, people loved being around Arnold. He had uh they you know, they gave him uh the they sort of uh fall fell all over him and you know praised him about everything, and and and and and rightfully so. But you know, and I think Arnold loved that he sort of he he would rather go to a uh a party of 300 people he didn't know than a dinner party with six people that he really knew well. That was Arnold. Yeah I'm I'm I was the opposite. I'd much rather go with five you know, four or five or a couple a couple of couples and go to dinner than go out and see a bunch of people I didn't know. But we're all different. That's that wound his watch and uh and charge him, and and you know, if that's that's what it is, that's what you do. And uh uh Arnold really loved that. He couldn't do it in the last year or two of his life.

Bruce Devlin 7:52

And I think too, Jack, uh anybody that's spent the time that you and I have spent with Arnold over the years, uh, I mean, you you nailed it perfectly right there. I mean, he loved being Arnold Palmer.

Jack Nicklaus 8:05

Oh yeah.

Bruce Devlin 8:07

He really did. Different for everybody else, but he was great.

Mike Gonzalez 8:12

So, Jack, if you looked at uh just amateur golfers, who would uh who would uh comprise your dream foresome, you and three amateurs, and why?

Jack Nicklaus 8:22

Three amateurs, today's amateurs?

Mike Gonzalez 8:24

Just no, just just anybody, just some some non-professional if you were to put together your dream foresome of three guys you really wanted to play with, living or dead.

Jack Nicklaus 8:32

Mine would actually be a five sum. Okay.

Mike Gonzalez 8:35

Okay. Alright, good, good. And what about on the professional side? What would be your dream foresome with professionals?

Jack Nicklaus 8:43

Oh, I don't know. I you know, I really enjoyed obviously I never saw Jones play. Uh so I'd love to have played with Jones. Uh Hogan, I love playing with. Uh and I suppose you could probably go back uh I don't know. Maybe maybe you bring up maybe you bring a modern day guy into it and look and see what how he would play with with those guys too, as as as I would want to see. Maybe Tiger, I don't know. Uh, you know, it's uh uh I mean it'd be pretty tough. I played with a lot of guys that could really play and uh were fun to play with. And you got Palmer and Player and Trevino and Watson, all great guys that uh that I that I really enjoyed competing against. And uh you know, it's it's it's hard it's hard to pick it's it's hard to pick a group.

Bruce Devlin 9:44

Jack, uh I know you since you've uh since you stopped playing, uh you've you've been instrumental in doing a lot of things for our return soldiers. About all the nice things you've been doing from you know, building golf courses for people and uh I I saw it I saw the other day and I think I may be wrong, but I think it was in Wisconsin where you built a golf course that the return soldiers are the ones that are gonna be running the facility and uh helping all helping all their friends uh learn the game.

Jack Nicklaus 10:20

Well, it first started uh Bruce uh uh when Kenny still called Bate. And he said out in Tacoma, Washington, uh they had a golf course that needed uh at the VA hospital that needed help. And he said, Would you be willing to come out and take a look? I said, Kenny, I'll do whatever you want. So we redid and built a new golf course for them out at a place called American Lakes out in Tacoma, Washington. And that I loved. I enjoyed doing that. I enjoyed meeting a lot of the guys and a lot and how I saw golf used as a rehabilitation tool for for their lives coming back with lost limbs and and uh uh post-traumatic syndrome and all the things that they've had. And uh so that one I then I got to know uh then uh Colonel Dan Rooney, now uh or Major Dan Rooney, now Lieutenant Colonel Dan Rooney, uh who's who started Fools of Honor. And Dan, and I so I've done some things with Patriot Day and for the Fools, and then Dan called me about five years ago, and he said, Jack, I've got a golf course that's in Michigan, Bruce.

Bruce Devlin 11:29

Ah, okay, Michigan. I was close.

Jack Nicklaus 11:33

Close, not it was right across the lake, and it was Grand Haven, Michigan, and he said it's it's been a family golf course for years. I'd like to turn it into a 501c3 and benefit Fools of Honor. And he said, Would you would you be interested in helping out? I said, Of course I'm doing it, I'd be happy to do it. So I we did the golf course, opened it up. Uh officially, we opened it a little bit last fall, but officially May 1st this year. And the Fools of Honor is a is is an organization that educates the children of fallen or injured uh service people that come back who can't educate their kids. And so uh I don't know how many kids stand done now, but I've just like 25,000, 30,000 families of fallen warriors have come back and they've educated them. So anyway, we did the golf course. It's called American Dunes. It's in Grand Haven, Michigan, and they they have honored with a wall of fame, all these fallen warriors, and you walk, that's how you get into the place. Walk both sides is then, and it's got their boot prints in front of them. Uh it's uh uh they play they play taps every day at one o'clock. They play the Star Spangled Banner every morning at eight o'clock. Uh they uh uh uh I know that they opened the golf course on May 1st, and they had uh uh like I think I think we're gonna have 40,000 rounds of golf to play this year. Well, they booked the 40,000 rounds of golf faster than they could almost open the golf course. And uh the golf course, it was a golf course that's about 300 yards off of Lake Michigan, and uh so it's still in the sand. And Dan said, I'd like to call it American dunes. I said, Well, Dan, it's a totally tree-lined golf course. He said, I know, but there's sand underneath that. So I took down about 2,000 trees, big mature trees. And then I then then Mother Nature took down about another 500. So it opened it all up, and uh, so I traded these these sand dunes were there. Bruce, it's a it's a aesthetically, it's a fantastic golf course to look at, but it's also a really, really fun course to play. And uh it's it's it's it's uh it's doing uh uh a lot of good. I know when we did the uh the opening of the golf course on May 1st, uh the the night before we had a dinner in what they call the uh uh it's it's a clubhouse, it's a restaurant, or it's like it's a it's like a uh a bomber squadron, uh Air Force Base Squadron. Uh and and and so they had about 20 uh pilots there, and they all told their stories about fallen warriors and people that they flew with. And I mean there wasn't a dry eye in the house. And they have above the bar, they have two uh I assume I think they're F-16s, and they have one with his tail on the nose of the other one. And it's it's one where a fellow uh named Cheetah was it, was it was piled along with Mad Dog, and they the one guy ran out of gas over Vietnam and he came underneath him and picked up his tail on the nose of his airplane, and he pushed him 160 miles out of Vietnam, one mile into Laos, and everybody survived.

Mike Gonzalez 15:18

Oh my god. Oh, what a story.

Jack Nicklaus 15:21

So they had them telling the story and of how and that happened. And I mean, all these things were so just unbelievable things. Now you get there and you say, why wouldn't I want to be part of this? So I can encourage anybody if they want to, if they want to go have a really, really uh spiritual time and about our country, go to American Dunes. It is fantastic. Grand Haven, Michigan, it's just south of Muskegon, Michigan.

Mike Gonzalez 15:52

Good. We'll have all our listeners check it out, and I'm anxious to get up there. It sounds like a lot of fun.

Bruce Devlin 15:57

Sure it does. Uh Jack, uh you and Barbara have uh been great uh great help both in Columbus and down in Florida with your hospital programs too.

Jack Nicklaus 16:10

Well, we've uh uh Bruce, it goes back a long way. And uh, you know, when Nan was uh uh she was about 11 months old in 1966, she was uh ch choking on a crayon or choke, choking. We didn't know why she was choking. After three or four times the doctor, the doctor says, we need to get this young gal to the hospital. We took her down to Columbus Children's Hospital and they found a crayon in her windpipe. And they went down, why with an adult bronchoscope? I have no idea, but they went down with an adult bronchoscope. It broke up pieces of the crayon, fell in her lungs. She went to pneumonia, oxygen tent for about six days. We didn't know whether she was going to make it or not. She made it, obviously. And she uh uh, as Barbara and I were sitting down in the waiting room, we'd say, you know, if there's every and we were if we were ever in a position, and we certainly weren't in a position then, but if we were ever in a position to help others, we wanted to be children. So when the memorial tournament started, uh the nationwide, there was Columbus, now nationwide children's hospital, has been the beneficiary ever since. And then uh 16 years ago, we uh uh uh Fred Millsaps from the Hotna Tournament came up to us and said, uh, Jack and Barbara, we want to move the tournament up to the Palm Beach area. Are there any children's charities up here that uh we could uh benefit? And so I looked at Barbara and uh I said, You want to go for it? And she says, Absolutely. So we just went we started our foundation. And uh the Hotna Tournament was a sort of the uh we've been the main beneficiary of that tournament, and then we do a lot of different outings and and programs and things across the country. We even now have Liam Down the Nicholas Children's Healthcare Foundation of Canada, and it's gonna be the beneficiary at the uh next uh President's Cup matches in Montreal. And so uh since we started the foundation, Bruce, uh we made an affiliation with Miami Children's Hospital. After about three years, they came to us and said, we want to be a little bit more global. Can we change the name to Nicholas Children's Hospital? We have. We've served every state in the Union and 119 foreign countries at that hospital. And we have that hospital, and we have 20 outpatient outpatient clinics up and down the east and west coast of Florida. So uh, and we've raised, so gosh, well over $200 million for it. And uh, you know, we continue need to need to continue to raise more. And the last thing that we've done this last year is they started a legacy fund when Barbara and I both turned 80. And that legacy fund is trying to raise $80 million uh for uh indigent care, meaning the no kid comes, we never we never we never turn away anybody anyway anybody anyway, but this pays for all the indigent care. And so we're very happy about that. Our first year we raised we raised uh about 29 of that four uh 80 million on a four-year program. And so uh we've got another 50 something go by the time we get to 80, we're probably gonna need to go to go to 100 to be able to take care of it. About about $4 million is what we do now. I'm sure by the time we raise it, it'll probably be about five. And uh, you know, that's uh that makes us feel really good that no kid comes there is not taken care of.

Bruce Devlin 19:56

Well, a lot of children bless you and Barbara for all the work you do, Jackie. You're an inspiration for a lot of people, my friend.

Jack Nicklaus 20:05

Well, we've enjoyed it, Bruce. It's a whole whole new chapter in in my life. Barbara supported me for 40 years, and all of a sudden I have an opportunity to support her and what she her her main passion, which is obviously kids. And as you know, you know, we got five kids and 22 grandkids, so you know we gotta we got a flock of kids to start with a lot of kids, and so so us to be able for me to be able to do that, and then I get in. I used to worry about going to somebody's office and asking them for a thousand dollars. I have no problem going to somebody's office now and asking them for several million. So and so it's and it's kind of and and I want to tell you, it's been fun, it's been absolutely a new been a blast.

Bruce Devlin 20:50

I bet there's one other thing, Jack, that I know you've had um you've had wonderful success in. You've done a lot of good for the game of golf, and that is in your architectural business. Uh, how many golf courses have you actually built now?

Jack Nicklaus 21:06

Well, the company's done about 450. Bruce, I've done about 320 myself. And uh the uh you know I started out with Pete Dye, and then I went at Desmond Muirhead, and then I had myself, and I had I had I I've had I've had like 25 or six guys that that work for me are now members of the American Society of Golf Course Architects. So I'm very proud of that because I I bring them along and then I try to either want to keep them with the organization or shove them out and have them go do their own thing. And they they've all done very well. And so, you know, it's uh it's a whole new new new deal. And uh, but I've enjoyed the golf course architecture. I've got I've got a ton of work right now, but I can't get to it. Most of it's overseas. And uh we're uh you can't get there. I mean, I've been saudi. Arabia, Turkmenistan, Portugal, Belgium, Scotland, Mexico, Canada, oh, Greece. Got two golf courses in Greece. You know, I mean, those are golf, but they can't get there.

Bruce Devlin 22:20

Do you have a favorite?

Jack Nicklaus 22:23

Bruce? Do you have a favorite child? No, no, do you have a favorite golf course?

Mike Gonzalez 22:28

One that you, you know. You want me to give you a hint, Bruce?

Jack Nicklaus 22:32

Do you have a favorite child, Bruce? I suppose you can say some days I do. Yeah.

Bruce Devlin 22:39

But uh I understand.

Jack Nicklaus 22:41

But uh no, I I I try not to try not to have favorites when it comes to that. Yeah, I understand. For all my children.

Mike Gonzalez 22:47

I I could mention a few fan favorites that our listeners are quite familiar with. Uh places like uh Sabonic, Castle Pines, which you must have worked with Jack Vickers on that one, Jack, huh?

Jack Nicklaus 22:58

Yeah, yeah, I'm still working on it. Yeah, we're changing uh I'm changing a couple holes there right now.

Mike Gonzalez 23:04

Uh Punta Espada down in the Dominican Republic, uh Jack Nicholas Golf Club in Korea, Valhalla, Mayacama, Cabo del Sol, Kinloch, Guivara, Shoal Creek, and just here locally, Harbortown, May River, uh, which uh Ian Baker Finch just told us about playing there when he was here for the tournament in Congress a couple weeks ago in Collaton River. So you got wonder, just a great body of work.

Jack Nicklaus 23:31

Well, I've got some nice golf courses. And uh, you know, of course, I played out here at the Bears Club, which is mine down here, where I hang my hat, and of course I hang my hat north at Mearfield Village. Right.

Mike Gonzalez 23:43

You have to be proud at uh what's happened at Mearfield Village, how that's developed as well as the memorial tournament.

Jack Nicklaus 23:50

Uh yeah, it's been great. Memorial tournament's been great. And uh I last yeah I went in and talked to my superintendent and I said, you know, Chad, I said, I want to get rid of this blasted poenia. I am so tired of looking at it. And he said, Well, I says, why don't we just skim the greens and and uh you know replant it and uh we'll be fine for for you know for seven or eight years. And he said, Jack, if you're gonna do it, you know that you your mix is bad. Let's redo it and put the proper mix in. And I said, Well, you really think so? Yes, it isn't gonna take any longer to do that than just regrass it. I said, Okay, I can handle that. He says, Well, why we're gonna do that? He says, you know, I you gotta get you gotta do the fairways too, because he said, if we don't do the fairways, then we're gonna track it right back into the greens. I said, okay, so we're gonna do the fairways. He says, our irrigation system is about due. He says, so we need to do an irrigation system. And I says, of course, if we're gonna tear everything up, we may as well redo the bunkers too. And I said, anything else you want to do? And he said, no, he says, I think that's enough. Well, I went from about a $200,000 project uh to uh eight figures, and uh, you know, it's sort of it changed the complex, but we did it all in two months. We started uh the day the tournament ended, I think it was around July 18th or something like that last year. And by the uh by the 18th, 15th of July, we had planted the last green by the end, or by by October, and by the end of October, to tell you the honest truth, the golf course was playable in just over two months. And it the fairways were good, the greens were good. Uh the golf, we didn't let anybody play it until the tournament this year, but but it was good.

Mike Gonzalez 25:49

Tell us a little bit about Best Seed in the House, 18 Golden Lessons from a Father to His Son.

Jack Nicklaus 25:56

Well, my son Jack decided uh uh he wanted to uh tell his story and his story and his relationship with his father. And uh so he uh decided to base uh a book around the 86 masters, and uh then he told stories of when he caddied for me, when he was playing junior golf, uh, when uh uh how we I came came to football and basketball games and and everything that isn't been involved. I've been involved with the kids' lives. And he turned it into 18 lessons, and I tell you the book has just got rave reviews. I asked Jack, I said, Well, you I said you had a good ghostwriter with you. He says, he said, Dan, I sat down and wrote 98% of it myself. He said, he sat down with a pen and pencil and or paper and pencil and did that. And I said, You did? I said, Absolutely. So, you know, the stories are all his, they're all they're all accurate. And uh worked with Don Yeager, but Don did a nice job of putting it all together. And uh, I mean, it's been the best seller list in the New York Times, Amazon uh bestseller list, number one in golf book, number one in uh uh sports books. I mean, it's sold, I don't know how many it's sold, but it's sold, I don't know, hundreds of thousands of books already. And uh so he's he's he's doing very well with it. I'm I'm very proud of him.

Mike Gonzalez 27:32

Doesn't he bring his own kids into the story toward the end in terms of their reflections on their relationship with their father?

Jack Nicklaus 27:37

The last chapter I think he brings his kids in and have their relationship with their dad. Nice. And of course, what he did with the book too is that he didn't take a penny from the book, he turned it all to his kids.

Mike Gonzalez 27:50

Yeah, that's terrific.

Jack Nicklaus 27:52

And so uh I don't know what he's gonna make from it, but I think his kids are gonna do very well.

Mike Gonzalez 27:56

That's terrific. Jack, what does this game of golf look like in 50 years?

Jack Nicklaus 28:04

Who knows? If you went back 50 years and tried to look at it uh then, uh it uh you couldn't you couldn't have guessed what it would be today. What it would be 50 years from now, I don't know. Maybe we'll be playing wood shafts and you've got to put your balls again, I don't know.

Mike Gonzalez 28:21

Well, Bruce and I are hoping that uh the sort of content we're creating by telling these life stories of all the the fellows that you played with will be listened to for many, many years. Uh timeless content, as we call it. So for s for some of our listeners that are sitting now in uh in the year 2071 and listening to this podcast and listen to Jack Nicholas, what would you want them to know about the game in 1961?

Jack Nicklaus 28:49

Well, I think that all the game was a good game in 1961. I'm sure it was a good game in 1930. It was a good game in 2021, and I think it'll be a good game in uh 2071. And uh, but it what what it will be, it will be it will be a different game. Uh the game changes. Uh situations change. Uh it'll it it'll it'll it'll it'll adjust, the people adjust to it. And uh I don't I don't think that the the importance of the game of golf uh today and the importance of game of golf 51 50 years from now, I hope is the same. That it's a game of friendships, uh camaraderie, uh uh competition, of fairness, of uh uh you know sportsmanship, congeniality, all the kind all the things that you and the lear lessons you learn in life. That's what the great that's what's great about the game of golf. So however they play it 50 years from now, I don't think it makes any difference as long as it retains all those other things.

Bruce Devlin 30:05

And it's a game, it's a game that's uh lifelong relationships too, Jack, as we talked when we first started today.

Jack Nicklaus 30:12

Unfortunately, we won't be around, we won't be around to see it. But our but our grandkids probably will.

Mike Gonzalez 30:19

Well, Jack, you've been very generous with your time today. You know, as I said at the top, we could spend weeks recounting all of your playing accomplishments, all of your charitable contributions you and your wife, Barbara, and family have done. Uh, and perhaps we'll get another chance to get together and reminisce uh uh sometime in the future. But for now, we'd sure like to thank you for your time today and uh really appreciate it.

Jack Nicklaus 30:42

Well, thank you, Mike and Bruce. And I've enjoyed it. We've had a nice conversation. Bruce and I have been friends for 60 years, 61 years, and I assume that we'll continue to be friends for as many years as we're both around.

Bruce Devlin 30:57

Okay, just stay that same distance behind me, buddy, on on age. I know. You know, maybe we maybe we'll do this in another 10 years.

Jack Nicklaus 31:06

Okay, what are you 83 now?

Bruce Devlin 31:07

I'll be 84 in October, yeah.

Jack Nicklaus 31:10

Yeah, so you're 83 now. Yeah, and uh so you know Bruce is a couple years ahead of me, and uh uh he's handled himself well, he's lived a good life, he's enjoyed it uh here. He's played played a lot of good golf, but he's also uh uh raised a nice family and uh and he's helped a lot of others. So uh it was uh it's great to talk to you guys. I've enjoyed it, it's been fun, and uh if we get the opportunity to do it again, I'd be happy to.

Bruce Devlin 31:37

God bless you.

Mike Gonzalez 31:38

Thank you, Jack. We appreciate it.

Jack Nicklaus 31:40

Okay, guys, take care.

Mike Gonzalez 31:44

Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends until we tee it up again for the good of the game. So long, everybody.

Intro Music 32:09

It went smack down the fairway, and it started to slice just smitch off line. It headed for two, but it bounced off nine. My caddies, as long as you're still in the state, you're okay.