Lance Barrow - Part 4 (Remembering Broadcasting Greats and Legacy)

In the powerful conclusion of our four-part conversation with legendary CBS Sports producer Lance Barrow, we uncover some of the most personal and unforgettable stories of his extraordinary career. From the NFL Today set to the sacred grounds of Augusta National, Lance shares candid reflections on the iconic broadcasters, athletes, and entertainers he worked with and admired—including Dick Enberg, John Madden, Jack Whitaker, Arnold Palmer, and even Dean Martin.

With his trademark humility and warmth, Lance recalls moments with Hubert Humphrey and Ted Kennedy, emotional lessons from his mentors, and hilarious encounters with household names. In one of the episode’s most touching memories, he recounts Arnold Palmer ordering an “Arnold Palmer” at Augusta—an unforgettable experience that captures the essence of what made Arnie so beloved.

Lance opens up about knowing when it was time to step away from the spotlight and the values that guided him throughout a 50-year career at CBS. He speaks openly about leadership, mentorship, and why preserving the legacy of greats like Summerall, Madden, and Devlin is a mission he’s proud to embrace.

As Bruce Devlin and Mike Gonzalez pose the final three questions of the podcast, we hear Lance reflect on lessons learned, potential do-overs, and—most meaningfully—how he hopes to be remembered.

This episode is a tribute to one of sports broadcasting’s finest—a storyteller, mentor, and man who always put people first. Join us for a heartfelt sendoff to a remarkable career and an unforgettable interview series with Lance Barrow, FORE the Good of the Game.

Transcript

Mike Gonzalez 0:15

Let me, if I can, uh turning now to some of the other things you got involved in besides golf, and and some of these names I mentioned uh you would associate with golf commentating as well. But I'm going to just list off some of these classic names from from my younger days that you would have had a chance to work with. And then you can pick the ones you might want to comment on. I remember the team of Brent Musberger, Irv Cross, Phyllis George, and Jimmy the Greek Schneider, uh, Jack Buck, Dick Enberg, Frank Gifford, Kurt Gowdy, John Madden. We talked about Venture, we talked about, we talked about Vern and McCord and Faraday, Jim McKay, Chris Schenkel, Vin Scully, Jack Whitaker, uh the classic sports uh announcers of of my time, my youth. Uh, and you had a chance to know a lot of these folks.

Lance Barrow 1:02

Jack Whitaker, um, one of the great things that Jim Nance always does, he remembers people. And he remembers the greatness of people, which, you know, a lot of people don't do that. You know, as as a friend of mine, Tom Law says, when you take your hand out of the bucket, eventually the bucket becomes smooth. And um, but Jim Nance is great at this, and it's a great lesson on remembering every time we would go to Philadelphia to do anything, football or golf, or anything that we were doing, Jim would call up Jack Whitaker and we would go to lunch or dinner with Jack Whitaker. You know, I was a kid. Jack was only at CBS for a few years, and then he went over to ABC. So I knew him because of Summerall. I what I remember, one of the first NFL championship games I did was at the old Bloomington Stadium the Vikings played in. If you remember, they both stood on the same sideline, and we had a we had a trailer that I guess it was Musberger, Phyllis George, Jimmy the Greek, Irv Cross back in that era, and Jack Whitaker, Summer on Brookshire, was doing the game. I walked into the trailer, and about that, and I was talking to Jack Whitaker, and about that time, Hubert Humphrey walked into the the trailer, and I remember Jack Whitaker, and I am I don't think I've ever told this story. You made me think about it, Mike, when you brought up Jack Whitaker's name. He introduced me to Hubert Humphreys, the vice president of the United States.

Mike Gonzalez 2:49

Hubert Horatio Humphreys.

Lance Barrow 2:51

That's right, who ended up having the stadium named after him when he built it downtown. And I was like, wow, that's pretty cool. That same day, Ted Kennedy came into the booth and they interviewed Ted Kennedy in the booth at halftime because he was there campaigning for Bob Short, who owned the who ended up owning the Texas Rangers at one time. And um, so I had never even thought about that story until now. Uh Dick Eberg, one of the great thrills of my life when Sean McManus hired him and he came over to CBS. I got to do football with Dick Enberg and one of my closest friends to this day, Dan Deerdorf. And it was amazing. We had so much fun. We enjoyed eat we enjoyed with Mike Arnold, our director. We had so much fun doing these games and traveling around the country. And, you know, Dick Enberg, he's one of those guys. I love hearing stories. And I love sitting around hearing people tell stories. You know, people have said to me, You're a great storyteller. Well, I don't know if I am or not, but I love asking people about about stories, about stuff. And Enberg had unbelievable stories, and he had unbelievable stories in baseball and in football and golf and tennis. And, you know, that was his love, really, was tennis and football. And, you know, back in the day, I would ask him about Merlin Olsen. I'd ask him about, you know, doing these tennis matches at Wimbledon and places like that, doing baseball with the great Don Drysdale, and you know, being around people like that. And, you know, it was amazing. It was a history lesson that I don't care any school you went to, you would not get the lesson that you got from Dick Inberg. And one of the great lessons I got from Dick and Dan go back to how they treated people. They treated everybody that they were their best friends. And it was a great lesson because these guys, I mean, Dan Durdorf, shoot, he's a Hall of Famer in football. He's a Hall of Famer in broadcasting. As Dick Inberg is a Hall of Famer in so many Hall of Fames. And just the life lessons that they would give me or I would just observe was amazing. I never, I don't know if I ever met Kurt Gowdy. Um, I don't know if I ever came across him. Chris Schenkel, I got to know Chris because he did the Master's Highlight or the movie, as I called it, for many, many years. And when I took over golf, Jack Stevens, who was chairman of Augusta National at the time, made Summerall and Brooke and uh and Schenkel on some TV committee, which I'm not really for sure what it was, but they were always there, and Chris was always so nice to me. You know, like I said about Bruce Devlin at the start of this, Chris Schenkel mentioned my name. I had to kind of look around like, who's he talking about? Because I couldn't believe that Chris Shankles knew who I was, and what a great gentleman. And you think about the history that he had in TV sports, um I got put on the NFL today back um because back in the days when I went up to New York in our entry-level program, we had four executive producers. So everybody had camps. So I everybody did NFL or college football. So I did that. But no one did golf because I was just a Kenyan guy, and then there was other guys. Ted Shaker was in charge of studio shows and stuff like that. So when it became time for me to be promoted, Ted Shaker said he's never done a studio show. So I got put on NFL Today, which I ended up staying on NFL today for about seven or eight years of my career, uh, but ended up being one of the great lessons of my life because I'm one of maybe I might be the only person ever at CBS that learned working with an announcer, then went to production and worked his way up to be a coordinating producer. But being on NFL today, I got to learn what it went on in the studio to be a part of live sporting events, you know, like half times and when you break in to show a touchdown and what was going on in other games and stuff like that. So I got to work a lot with Musberger. Almost every week when I got promoted, I would go somewhere around the country and do a feature that we would show on NFL today on Sunday with Irv Cross. Uh Phyllis had just kind of gotten out, so it was Charles Chelsea Canty was with when when I was there. And then I got to be around a little bit and got to do things with Jimmy the Greek. And um, you know, you think about those lessons that I learned about Dylan, you know, working with guys like Brent Brent Musberger, who was at the top of his game, Irv Cross, who was one of the great gentlemen that I ever was around, and Jimmy the Greek, which other than maybe John Madden was maybe the most popular person I ever walked the street with. Because everybody, everybody knew about the Greek, and everybody wanted to know what Greek's thoughts were. And um, you know, he uh, you know, and same thing with John Madden. You know, you'd walk down 72nd Street, New York City, and there would be a black suburban pull up, when it would roll down and go, hey coach, and you look over and it would be President Nixon because his office wasn't far from where John was at the Dakota. And he'd want to hear about, hey, who do you what do you think about the Giants game this weekend? What do you think about what the Washington team's gonna do? You think Dallas is gonna win? He was a golf fanatic. I mean, he was a football fanatic and knew the game. And so we'd walk over there and you know, I remember I always have said to people, there's three people I was around that no matter how many people came up to them, they never seemed upset, they never seemed put out, was John Madden, Arnold Palmer, and Richard Petty. And I always, it took me a while to realize it. But I think all these people, even though they had never met them, always felt like they knew them. And it was amazing how they handled people. And they would, you know, in this day and age, it'd be pictures taken and all that, but they would sign autographs and people would go, thank you, and they'd go, You're welcome. Thanks for asking, and go on about it, never once get upset, never once looked at it. Matter of fact, the only time I'd see Arnold Palmer get upset is when people didn't ask him about it. And and that was unbelievable.

Mike Gonzalez 10:53

Well, I'll never forget what Jack Nicholas told us when Bruce and I had him on. This is probably four years ago. We just started the podcast, and uh, we're talking about Arnie in his you know last couple years, and and and Jack said of Arnie, who you know was getting pretty old at the time, he said, you know, he said, the one thing that frustrates Arnold is Arnold Palmer loved being Arnold Palmer.

Lance Barrow 11:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I I got to know him probably the last 15 years or 20 years of his life through a dear friend of mine who was who was longtime chairman of PNC Bank, Jim Rohr, out of Pittsburgh. And I spent a lot of I spent a lot of time with Arnold like just sitting at restaurants or sitting at at the Lowell Valley or being around functions that Jim Rohr would have and I uh Jim Nance and I were invited down to Augusta one one week with Arnold Palmer and Jim Rohr and a few other people and we go in one day after playing and I'm sitting at the table there in the locker room, and you know, I don't tell this story very often. I've never really told it ever in public, and I'm not even for sure as I'm beginning down this road if I should say, but Tony, the waiter, comes to us and he's standing behind Mr. Palmer, and I've known Tony forever, and he looked at me and he said, uh, Lance, unsweet nice tea, right? And I go, Yeah. Yeah, I'll take that. And he said, Mr. Palmer, what can I get you? And he kind of, hmm, let me think, Tony. And he turned around and he said, You know, Tony, I think I'll have an Arnold Palmer. Yeah. And I looked at him right across the table and I said, That might be the coolest thing I've ever heard anybody ever say in my life. It'd be like being with James Bond when he would go, I'm Bond, James Bond. They hear Arnold Palmer asked for an Arnold Palmer at Augusta National in the locker room. It was to this day one of the greatest moments that I ever had with someone. You know, I will tell you guys there's a lot, there's about four or five stories that I've told today that I've never told ever in public, and that's one of them about Arnold Arnold Palmer doing that. Because, you know, he he was so so great to me and so wonderful, just like Jack has been, Jack Nicholas and Barbara. Um I you know, that goes back to like I said, when they mentioned my name, I'd like look around like they gotta be talking about somebody else. They don't know me. And um, you know, you you know, people have asked me a lot of times when I'm gonna write a book, and I always say I probably never will because these stories that it that I've told even today, you know, those are kind of private stories that I that I you know kept to myself and maybe dear dear friends that I tell because they mean so much and I don't want to ever ever abuse my friendship with people like like that. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 14:44

Yeah. Well, uh this guy, Bruce Dublin, you know, back in the day, he played for 10 years at the clam bake with Dean Martin. Oh, I know, yes. He's got Dean Martin rat pack stories that I don't think we will ever hear.

Lance Barrow 14:58

Well, yeah, and and and thankfully you probably won't. Um we uh I I wish I'd known Mr. Devlin back in those days because I got to meet and got to know Sammy Davis fairly well because we did his golf tournament every year. And then I got to meet through Sammy Davis, Jerry Lewis, because of Venturi got to meet Sinatra. I never got to meet Dean Martin, and I loved Dean Martin. I thought he was I watched his show, I watched his roast, I watched all this stuff, and by the time we started doing Pebble, Dean Martin had quit playing at Pebble, and it was right after Bean Crosby had passed away, so I never got to meet Bean Crosby either. But I, you know, and I was upset because there's a restaurant in Beverly Hills or by Beverly Hills that called Mateo's in the day that Dean Martin would go to almost every night and have dinner there. And I started going there, and it was a big Hollywood place on Sunday night. Bill Raffrey, the great announcer for CBS basketball, brought me there. We were doing the NCAA basketball tournament at Pali Favilion, and we went there Sunday night. And as David Faraday said once about a place he went to, the only person that he didn't know in the restaurant was him. And that Mateo's was like that with me. The only person I didn't recognize was me in the restaurant. And um, and I I'm still to this day kick myself that I never got to meet Dean Martin. So I wish I'd have known Mr. Devlin back then because I would have loved to sit down with Dean Martin and hear his story. I got to hear a lot of his stories through the great Mac Davis out at Bel Air. And I would ask Mac Davis, and he was so sweet and so nice to me. I think because we were both Texans, that he would tell me stories about Dean Martin and being around Dean Martin because they played they played a lot of golf together out in Vegas. And um, but I I'm envious of Bruce that he got to play golf with Dean Martin like he did.

Mike Gonzalez 17:29

Am I allowed to tell him one story about Dean? You can tell as many as you like. And when I was lucky enough to win the uh the Bob Hope Classic one year, uh I was in the press room after the tournament, and uh a gentleman came up to me and he said, uh there's a phone call for you. Uh and I said, Who is he? He said, Uh, I don't know. They asked to speak to you, so I get on the phone, it's Dean. Dean Martin. And I said, uh, yes, sir, what's going on? He said, Uh I don't know if you know, but I'm opening tonight. And I just sent a plane to Palm Springs to pick you and Gloria up. And I want you to have dinner with me and then be my guest at the opening of the show. And that's the sort of guy he was. Yeah, pretty fancy.

Lance Barrow 18:28

I I I saw him once years ago in in Vegas. I s I saw him perform. And uh, like I said, I still talk about the Dean Martin roast and the Dean Martin show. And it I I I I I really I really not regret, but I I wish I could have met him and sat down with him and you know asked him, I would ask him a thousand questions. We were one of the great nights of the year on golf tour was at Bel Air Country Club over, and they still do it. It's called the Traditions Dinner, and they always honor a member of Bel Air. So this one one year they were honoring Bob Newhart. And so John Pike, who is a legendary member there at Bel Air, and John Rinquist, who's a dear friend, who was a longtime member at Bel Air, we were having lunch, and Bob Newhart came and sat down with us because he wanted to hear about the night and how it was going to flow. And I always had a great advantage on a lot of people because people loved Chickinian and they knew him at Bel Air. He was a member, longtime member at Bel Air, and everybody loved Summerall. So I always figured that people figured if this kid worked for Pat Sumerall for so long, he had to have something going for him. And if Frank Chickinian liked him or let him work for him, he had to have so all I'd have to say is, you know, I when Frank retired, I took over his place. And so Bob Newhart sat down, heard his information, and I said, Mr. Newhart, I'm in charge of golf and NFL at CBS, Lance Barrow, Frank Shekinian was my mentor, and then he went, started in on how much he loved Frank and this and that. And we sat there at Bel Air for an hour and a half, and I just peppered him with questions about Dean Martin, about about Don Rickles, about stuff like that. And um, you know, it's just like moments like that. I love that era. You know, I always said I was born about 20 years too late because I loved that whole Las Vegas rent pack, all that stuff. I would have been, you know, luckily I got to, you know, know a few of those entertainers, and um, you know, it it was great, but uh I I loved it.

Mike Gonzalez 21:13

Well, guys, we could sit here for hours more, at least I could, and and and listen to some of these stories. Uh uh, you've had a fabulous career, of course. Uh it produced a lot of these great stories. But you got to share with us uh uh how far in advance did you sort of see the end coming in terms of your desire to sort of wind down your regular your regular gig at CBS?

Lance Barrow 21:36

You know, I said this probably 30 years ago, if not longer. I said when I turned 66, 67, I'm done. I'm done. And as I went on in my career, um you know, I I I I think the hard Hardest thing for people is to know when it's time to walk away, to say it's time to go. And I saw a lot of people in my industry, and I don't know any other industry. I've only been, you know, like I joke, my resume would say Lance Wardberry, born 2255, graduated in 1977, Abilene Christian, 1976, the present CBS Sports. And um I I just wanted to get out, as they said in the movie broadcast news, when you can still cry. And um I just I always wanted, I knew when I was figuring it out, and I talked to our chairman, Sean McManus, about it. I wanted to produce Super Bowl 50, which I got to do. And then I wanted to do one or two more years of golf, and sellers shy was ready to do the next step. And you know, I I treated him like a little brother, and I didn't want to hold him back because it was time, just like it was time for me with Frank. I mean, Frank would have done it for another 20 years if he could have done it, but um, you know, I didn't realize when I was going to retire from golf that it was going to be the year of COVID. Um, that that was kind of a bummer, but you know, and I just decided it was time to walk away. And, you know, I didn't want to be 68, 70, 71, 72, and have someone who really didn't know me that well at our company tell me it was time to go. And so I talked to Sean McManus. We talked about it, and he agreed, and and so I w I walked away. There was no magical thing about it. You know, I'm fortunate, and I had a couple young guys come to me and said, Would you mind producing a few games with us who started like I did as a runner uh at CBS when they were in college, now they're getting to direct. They worked on crews with me all the way in their career. And I said, Well, if it's okay with Sean McManus and David Burson, Steve Karasek, Harold Bryan, people like that who are our bosses, and they said, you know, we really didn't want you to leave anyway. So yeah, we'd love to have you be a mentor. And so I'm still getting to do a little bit of it. Uh, it's amazing how many coaches will come up to me and go, um, man, I loved you in 10 cup, or I I had loved your golf coverage over the years. Um, one of the one of the things many years ago, and I won't bore you with the story, but the only thing I really ever collected in my career is football helmets. And I have about 600 football helmets. It was started by an AM equipment guy named Matt Watson. And I'm doing a game in East Carolina University a few years ago. Amanda Baleonis is our sideline reporter. So we go to the meeting like we do to meet with the coaches and players and that at East Carolina. So the next day, or whatever it was, we're doing the game there at East Carolina. All of a sudden, here comes the sports information director, and here comes the athletic director with a helmet. And they go, hey, you made a big it was a big ruckus in our office after you guys left. I go, what do you mean? Everybody in the office after you guys left today or yesterday came up to everybody and go, Do you know who were in the who was in that office? And they go, Yeah, the CBS Sports Network guys. No, no. That's Amanda Baleotis. That's the golf girl that does the interviews on CBS. And the guy with them was the guy that produced all the golf and football, but more importantly, he was in the movie 10 cup. And so the SID goes, I didn't know any of this. I looked you up. I found out you have a collection of football helmets because the PGA Tour did a feature in the fall many years ago about my football collection. And so we figure we don't want to make sure you have an East Carolina football helmet. I thought, well, that's great. That that's that's wonderful. So, you know, I'm still getting to do it. You know, I joke with our young announcers now that are great in the business, that are getting their shot. Um, they want to hear about Dickinberg and Pat Summer and John Madden. And I always tell them, when you guys get tired of hearing about dead guys, let me know, and I won't tell any more stories about them. But they love to hear it. They love to hear about those guys, which I think's important because I don't want anyone ever forget who Pat Somerall is, John Madden is, Dick Enberg is, you know, and on and on and on. Because they need to know who those men, they need to know Andrea Joyce, Leslie Visser, Bonnie Bernstein, Michelle Defoyer, you know, on and on and on. They need to know those women's names because they were pioneers in our industry. And and I want to keep telling them about it. Just like the PJ Tour, they should celebrate men like Bruce Devlin because not only did Bruce Devlin come over and help frame what the PJ Tour is today, and they're playing for as much money because of people like Bruce Devlin. You think about someone like Bruce Devlin who had enough confidence in their own ability to leave their home, not down the road, but leave their home Australia to blaze a trail for golfers that, you know, we still hear Adam Scott's names, Ian Baker Finch, men that are and women that are on the LPJ tour that came from Australia. I just ran into Kari Webb at Colonial last week. She was in town for the women's PJ Championship at Frisco. And you think about guys like Bruce Devlin, who helped build that bridge all the way from Australia to America to make golf great. And people should know that. People should understand that. That it didn't just happen over the last few years. It happened many, many years ago, just like before Bruce Devlin, the men and women who who helped build golf the way they are, the way it is today. And that's what I want to do. I want to keep the legacy, the memories going from these great men and women that I had the privilege to work with and be a part of.

Mike Gonzalez 29:33

Well, that's why we're doing this podcast for the good of the game, uh, just making sure we try to capture as many of these stories and as much of this history as we can. And before we let you go, if you've listened to any of our podcasts you know, we always ask our guests three final questions, and I give the honors on the T to the senior member of our team. So, Mr. Devlin, on with the first question. Okay, so you've been you've been in this business for a long time. If you knew when you first started what you know now about the television business, what would you have done differently?

Lance Barrow 30:14

I would probably, and this is being completely straightforward, honest. I talked about this the other day. I would not been as hard-headed about things. You know, I uh I I always felt like I listened well, but I wouldn't uh fought certain things as hard as I did. Uh I would have maybe let some of these battles that you get into, you know, like different things, I would have probably let it pass a little bit faster and easier, and I wouldn't have been so hard-headed about about things. You know, I I use the example, uh, and I probably shouldn't do this, but like I've asked Jim Rickoff how he handles the Taylor Swift thing on NFL, showing Kansas City Chiefs games with Taylor Swift. I would have probably 15 years ago or so would have fought that, showing her as much as I did. Now, as I've got older, maybe I don't want to say more mature because I don't think I've matured at all. I think I'm still a kid. I would have probably been smart and put a camera on her to isolate her in a tape machine and and make sure we didn't miss anything because she has become a vital part of NFL coverage. And it's an important part. As a dad of two daughters who are a lot older, they're not Taylor Swift people, but as a as a dad of two daughters, and now hear dad say, you know, my daughter will watch the NFL because of Taylor Swift, that's very important. And so I that was a great example. I would probably would have fought it 15 years ago about showing her as much, but now I'd go, heck yeah, man, let's get her on as much as we can because she's a vital part of the coverage.

Mike Gonzalez 32:24

Yeah, fair enough. Right. Second question. We're going to give you one mulligan, one do-over in broadcasting. Where would it be?

Lance Barrow 32:35

You know, somebody asked me this before a Super Bowl. What keeps you up at night? And I went, what are you talking about? What keeps you up at night? Like your job. I go, my job never keeps me up at night. Maybe bad Mexican food, but not my job. I'm I always say um I always say that um I'm a good cornerback in football. I don't remember bad things. And luckily, I didn't have a lot of bad things happen in our in my in my career. And I, you know, there's a lot of things I probably could have done differently that I probably should have done differently. Um but you know, maybe have less arguments with Jim Nance while we're doing stuff or disagreeing or whatever, but we would disagree and like brothers would. You I can yell at him, he can yell at me, but you better not yell at him. And we'd have a disagreement, and the next question would be what what dinner are we gonna where what restaurant we're gonna go to? Um, you know, I gotta say, Mike, quite frankly, I don't know if I would do a lot of a lot of do-overs. I'm glad it happened the way they did. Uh I'm promise uh that I don't remember. I mean, you know, hey, I was the producer of the Super Bowl when the lights went out in New Orleans. You know, I was the replay producer when Janet Jackson had her problem. Um, you know, there's you're doing live TV, and that's what makes live TV so great. You never know what's coming down the corner, around the corner. You never know. So you better be prepared and you better have the seatbelt on, and you better better be ready for anything. And um, you know, but I I'm glad things happened the way they happened. And, you know, I was it kind of gives me a it makes me emotional. I think about you know, Summerall and Madden, Enberg, Deerdorf, Nance, you know, Baker Finch, Faraday, Costas, McCord, you know, Frank Lieber, uh, you know, Vern Lundquist, Randy Cross. I can keep going on and on and on. Musberger, Jimmy the Greek, Irv, Cross, you know, but I also think about bosses that I had, and you know, Neil Pilson and David, David Kinnan, and you know, Rick Gentil and Terry O'Neill and and um uh Harold Bryan, and then, you know, my last my really my really guy that gave me the keys to the Ferrari was Sean McManus, and then having a guy like David Burson and Steve Kersek that are still allowing me to do it, you know, it get it's emotional that you get a chance to be around these kind of people, and they're great at what they do, they're great at their profession, but more than anything, they're great as people. And you know, I know I left out names, but yeah, I'm glad it all kind of in the 50 years it all happened the way it happened, and I'm not for sure long answer to your question. I'm not for sure what I would have changed, because I really don't have anything in my brain to come up with.

Mike Gonzalez 36:15

Fair enough. Fair enough. So, Bruce, uh last question. Are you ready for this one? This one's an easy one. You run?

Lance Barrow 36:27

I'm ready.

Mike Gonzalez 36:30

How would Lance Marrow like to be remembered?

Lance Barrow 36:38

Um you know, I always joke. My greatest my greatest compliment I ever got, John Mann wrote one of his books. Other than I'm a good husband, a good father, and a good friend, you know, he said no one can work a restaurant better than Lance Barrow can, which I don't want to I don't want that to be. But um I want to be known as a guy that cared about people, cared about their crew, cared about what he was doing, uh that the job was just the profession was not the most important thing. You know, I want to be known as uh someone who who was a Christian, a Christian man that was a good husband, a good father, and a good good friend, and someone that you could have a lot of fun with when you're around him, but you could also ask him anything and he would give you a legitimate answer, and he always had time for for that person. And you know, I that would be my greatest legacy, um, that I treated people the way I wanted to be treated. Um I I was concerned when people had a question to ask me that needed to be concerning. Um, you know, like I had a audio person at Sultas, and he said this to a lot of people, and a lot of people agreed. They said, we don't care if we're doing the final round of the Masters or the Super Bowl or some other golf tournament or some other football game, Lance's personality never changes. And that was a great compliment to me. Like I said earlier, my mom always said Lance loves everyone and he hope and he thinks everybody loves him. And that's the way I I walked through life. Um I had a great foundation because of my mom and dad. Uh Gene and Dorothy Barra taught me to take care of people, to be giving, to be understanding. And I I hope I did. You know, I'm not someone who can judge that. Other people have to. And I would just hope that people would say, you know, when we knew we were working with him, we knew it was going to be great, and it was going to be a lot of fun. And that would be a great way to know on top of things personally in my life that I'd like to be known as. But I guess to answer a question, yeah, that's my legacy that I was I was I was good to people.

Mike Gonzalez 39:34

Well, we want to thank you, Lance, for being with us today. You know, uh Mike and I wanted uh we've waited a while to get you on this program, and we thank you for your time today and all your stories, and uh wish you the best.

Lance Barrow 39:48

Well, same here to you guys. Thank you all for asking me. It's been a great thrill. It's been great to be with you, Bruce. As always, I don't get to see you enough. And uh, Mike, it's great to see you, and uh hopefully one day we will actually cross path and we'll get a chance to visit with each other.

Mike Gonzalez 40:07

Well, that would be terrific, Lance, and we uh sure appreciate Bruce and I, you being on the program, adding your story to all the stories of golf's greats for the good of the game.

Lance Barrow 40:18

I hope I don't bring down the the grading system too far. I still hope you guys are A plus.

Mike Gonzalez 40:26

Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends. Until we tee it up again, for the good of the game, everybody.